Joy Behar: Oscar Round Up

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Oscar Roundup; Remains of 14-Year-Old Found

Aired March 8, 2010 – 21:00:00 ET


JOY BEHAR, HOST: Tonight on THE JOY BEHAR SHOW, another Oscar night has come and gone but why does it always have to be is so tedious. Last night`s show ran so long I started looking for myself in the death montage.

Then if a lion eats you while you were sitting at your desk, it would be shocking, right? But if you`re eaten because you`re in a lion`s cage, well, duh.

And Karl Rove says he wasn`t behind that story about McCain having an illegitimate kid. McCain did not have an illegitimate kid. But he did have an illegitimate running mate and we know who that is.

That and more right now.

Ok. This is fun now. Director Kathryn Bigelow and her movie “The Hurt Locker” had a great time at the Oscars last night but personally except for Steve Martin and Alec Baldwin, I found the whole affair boring. I actually found myself getting jealous of those people with Cablevision. That`s how bad.

Still, we`re talking about Oscars` big winners, losers, snubs and of course Red Carpet fashion anyway. With me to dish the dirt are comedian and writer Bruce Vilanch, Robert Verdi, celebrity stylist and host of the “Robert Verdi Show” on Logo. Is this a panel or a beach house on Fire Island? Also joining me for a gay old time, fashion designer Betsey Johnson.

Ok, there were two hosts this year — two, count them. Take a look.


STEVE MARTIN, COMEDIAN: Is that the director of “Avatar”, James Cameron?

ALEC BALDWIN, ACTOR: Oh yes. That`s him.

MARTIN: Oh, and look. There`s that damn Helen Mirren.

BALDWIN: See, that`s Dame Helen Mirren.

MARTIN: Oh, sorry.


BEHAR: A great joke. Bruce, did you write that joke?

BRUCE VILANCH, COMEDIAN: No, actually. That was Steve.

BEHAR: Steve wrote it.

VILANCH: Steve Martin who is himself an Emmy-winning writer.

BEHAR: That`s true. I could see his imprint in the material to tell you the truth.

VILANCH: Sure. He writes for himself, the way you do.

BEHAR: Well, not everything.

The most interesting part of the night was when the producer of the best documentary short did a Kanye moment. We`re going to have her on exclusively tomorrow. Take a look.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I never imagined in my wildest dreams I would end up here. This is so exciting.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A man never lets a woman talk?


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Isn`t that just the classic thing? You know, in a world in which most of us are told and tell ourselves that we can`t —


BEHAR: Ok. That may be tacky. She went and she stole the moment, but isn`t that — I`m talking to everybody now. Isn`t that the thing we miss?

ROBERT VERDI, LOGO: I think shoplifting and stealing should be encouraged.

BEHAR: What are you talking about?

VERDI: I don`t know. She stole the moment.

BEHAR: She did. But I meant it`s the kind of shake-up that you look for in the Oscars. Basically there was nothing like that except that.

VERDI: You want it to be people you recognize and know, so you could talk about it. I don`t think anybody knew who either one of these people were. Did you know who they were?


BEHAR: No, but we`ll take it. It`s the only Kanye moment. Betsey, it was kind of predictable, wasn`t it?

JOHNSON: Yes, I love surprises.

BEHAR: Like what?

JOHNSON: They`re long gone. Oh, I was thinking —

VERDI: Shockers?

JOHNSON: No. Bjork coming like a swan. And then there was one — who — anyway. Then there was the one ballerina — remember she —

VERDI: Yes, Lara Flynn Boyle.

JOHNSON: In the tutu with almost the toe shoes.

BEHAR: Whatever happened to her? She`s disappeared after that. I guess it didn`t work.

VERDI: She was abducted by fashion people. She`s in the fashion closet at Vogue.

VILANCH: She did swan lake and she died.

JOHNSON: I like the “Precious” lady. I like Mo`nique.

VERDI: Mo`nique.

JOHNSON: And I liked Gabby.

BEHAR: Did you like the way they were dressed?

JOHNSON: Yes. I like the way they are.

BEHAR: We`re full-figured and we`re proud of it.

JOHNSON: Yes. Check it out.

VERDI: Did you know they were all wearing blue as a tribute to Hattie McDaniel?

BEHAR: Yes I know. That was kind of odd. Is that true?

VERDI: Yes. Oprah and Mo`nique and Mariah Carey and Gabby Sidibe were all wearing blue as a tribute to Hattie McDaniel, who was the first woman — African-American to win an Oscar.

BEHAR: Right. Bruce, Sandra Bullock —

VILANCH: And Hattie McDaniel worked blue?

BEHAR: Sandra Bullock won a Razzie for something called “All about Steve” at the same time that she won the Oscar for “The Blind Side”. Did she reserve to win both, do you think?

VILANCH: What range. To be the worst actress and the best actress. Who does that happen to? It`s kind of like the reviews; you`re the worst reviews and the best reviews. It`s like people who love Obama and hate Obama. She`s got it coming from both sides.

BEHAR: Now Kathryn Bigelow, the first woman director to ever win an Oscar — oh, stop the presses. And then after Kathryn Bigelow won the Oscar, they start playing “I am Woman, Hear me Roar”. That was a little patronizing and annoying.

VERDI: Yes. I don`t have a hoo-ha.

VILANCH: Really? I thought it was funny.

VERDI: I think that everybody was getting bejazzled (ph) that night because of that.

BEHAR: Yes, bejazzled. Bruce, what do you mean it was funny? It was patronizing.

VILANCH: It was funny because they were making fun — we were making fun of the historical aspect of it.

BEHAR: Oh, I see you thought of it. No wonder you like it.

VILANCH: The fact that so much has been made of the fact that it`s the first woman to ever win. I don`t know what they would have played if Lee Daniels had won, you know. If they would have done Dixie or something like that.

BEHAR: Yes. Exactly my point.

VILANCH: The first black director. I don`t know what Mark Shaman had up his sleeve, but it was a comment on all that kind of the brouhaha.

BEHAR: I see. They were going for the fun of it, but it`s not — you wouldn`t play Swanny.

Ok. Everybody stay right there. We`ll be back in 60 seconds with more Oscar dish.


BEHAR: Back to talk about Oscar fashion hits and misses is my panel. Joining us is Jay Manuel, fashion correspondent for E! and creative director, “America`s Next Top Model”. Jay, say your last name — Manuel or Manuel.


BEHAR: It is Manuel.

MANUEL: Kind of like a book, like a manual.

BEHAR: Yes. I was watching you on TV. Not a lot of risks on the Red Carpet. Did anybody really knock it out of the park?

MANUEL: Oh, there were a few risks there, I`ve got to say. First of all, when Zoe Saldana hit the Red Carpet I could see kind of like the top of the dress and went, “Ok. Pretty.” It was pulled back, you saw the waist, you went, “Ok, great.” And then you saw the bottom of it, “Oh, what`s going on here? It was Givenchy couture.”

I mean for me it looked like couture mash-up. It felt like Armani (INAUDIBLE) at the top, Marquesa in the middle and then Oscar dela Renta at the bottom.

BEHAR: What about Charlize Theron?

VERDI: There were several train wrecks.

MANUEL: Well, Charlize Theron`s dress was — I mean it was definitely couture. I mean, I love the gown. I get it. Robert I`m sure —

VERDI: I have it.

MANUEL: Oh, you have it, huh? In that color? I don`t know what you`d call it.

VERDI: No, it`s not.

JOHNSON: A different color from what it was.

MANUEL: But I`ve got to tell you, across the bust? It looked like two Cinnabons going on. I mean I felt like it should have met in the middle —

VERDI: There was a lot of frosting on her cup cakes. And it looked like —

VILANCH: That was nice of her. That was so they could get the signal in New York.

VERDI: It looked like Miss Piggy was hugging her —

VILANCH: So people who didn`t get Cablevision could pick it up on their microwave.

VERDI: It looked like Miss Piggy was hugging her from the back, right, and had a good hold on her — a good firm hug.

BEHAR: Betsey, you liked it?

JOHNSON: Exactly. I liked it.

BEHAR: She`s the expert — let`s hear from Betsey.

JOHNSON: I liked the Gautier cone (EXPLETIVE DELETED).


BEHAR: Are you talking about Madonna`s cones?

JOHNSON: Yes the Gautier cones (EXPLETIVE DELETED). I liked that it was like, what? It was somebody to question instead of absolutely perfect stylist, perfect, perfect, perfection.

BEHAR: Ok. There was an awkward moment on the Red Carpet with Ryan Seacrest and Gabourey Sidibe. Take look.


GABOUREY SIDIBE, OSCAR NOMINEE FOR BEST ACTRESS: Let me tell you about this dress. Now, if fashion was porn this dress is the money shot.


BEHAR: Who was more awkward in the exchange? She goes, let`s widen it, widen it. It`s kind of like rude, isn`t it?

VERDI: It was awkward for sure.

BEHAR: Bruce, did you find that to be a rude moment?

VILANCH: No. What he meant was he needed a larger shot and that`s the expression that they use. He wasn`t talking about her. She was the one who made the reference to the money shot.

BEHAR: Yes, I know, but come on. He didn`t say, let`s get a wide shot when Demi Moore was there. She`s as skinny as can be.

MANUEL: Well, he actually did say that for —

VILANCH: You can`t get a wide shot with her. She weighs two pounds.

MANUEL: He did say that for a few people there. I have to be honest with you. Some of the dresses were so voluminous and gorgeous. He said it for Jennifer Lopez with the train too. They are really telling him in the ear, listen, we have to get the whole dress. I don`t think he meant anything by it.

BEHAR: Ok. Let`s look at Sarah Jessica Parker`s dress, a lot of mixed reviews on that. What do you think of that?

VERDI: Chanel couture, I loved it. It looked she actually got out of bed and had the sheet wrapped around her and then put some sequins on? I think it was very divine.


BEHAR: Can we get it? There it is; there`s the full shot of it. I think she`d look good in anything.

MANUEL: I think Sarah Jessica can do no wrong in my book when it comes to fashion.

BEHAR: Betsey do you agree?

MANUEL: But I think she — but she`s a little petite for this look.


MANUEL: It was off the runway.

BEHAR: Betsey?

JOHNSON: I tried to like it as everyone —

BEHAR: You`ve tried so hard to like it.

JOHNSON: — was raving about it.


JOHNSON: But I just couldn`t —

BEHAR: What don`t you like? Is it too boring for you? Is it too — what?

JOHNSON: Well, I guess I have the “Sex and the City” idea about Sarah Jessica.

VERDI: Right.

JOHNSON: I just — I have her spirit and her fun. And I don`t know it was just a question.

VERDI: Too serious?

BEHAR: What about the bond, she looks like —

VERDE: I loved the hair.

BEHAR: And the bun hair and the Octo-mom`s children in there.


BEHAR: Oh my God the bun was too much.

VERDI: I think she had 17 bump-its in there.

BEHAR: All right, thanks, everybody.

Catch Jay on the “Fashion Police” Oscar special on E! tonight at 10:00. And you can see “The Robert Verdi Show” Wednesdays at 10:00 on Logo and be sure to tune in to this show tomorrow when I`ll talk to the woman who pulled a Kanye at the Oscars.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Coming up a little later on the Joy Behar show, what happens when pet turns predator? A glimpse into the deadly world of exotic pets. But first, back to Joy.

BEHAR: When animals attack.

In his new book “Courage and Consequence” Karl Rove talks about his life, both political and personal in it. And then he says he`s not the dirty politico everyone thinks he is. Well, we`ll see about that.

Joining me now are Ann Coulter, conservative commentator and author of “Guilty, Guilty: Liberal Victims in their Assault on America” and Hilary Rosen, CNN political contributor. Welcome to the show, ladies.



BEHAR: Ann, let me start with you he`s back. As a good conservative are you going to read the book or is it a big yawn?

COULTER: That`s a good question. But it probably won`t be the first book on my list. Because there are a lot of other books I`m interested in. Though, he`s smart and he`s led a life through a lot of, you know, important periods for the country, you know, I mean, working for the president.


COULTER: So yes, it`s probably a fairly interesting book. But – –

BEHAR: Hilary, wasn`t it an insult to call him Bush`s brain as if Bush had no brain?

ROSEN: You know, he was the perfect bad cop to Bush`s good cop. So it`s half a brain for each, I give them.

BEHAR: Well, he doesn`t think he was a bad cop (EXPLETIVE DELETED).

For example, he was asked about his involvement in rumors that John McCain fathered an illegitimate black child and this is what he said.


KARL ROVE, FORMER SENIOR ADVISER TO PRESIDENT BUSH: In McCain — in the McCain campaign, Fletcher and others they needed somebody to blame. And they didn`t want to blame Bush. It was hard to blame Bush. He`s a nice guy. People knew him. They wouldn`t — it wouldn`t stick. So why not pick out the sort of dough-faced, you know, balding guy, who is digging heels, the gray eminence behind the campaign and blame him.

And look, that`s the way politics is, Bush had a theory. He`d say, better you than me. And that`s right, that — that came with the territory.


BEHAR: Ann, isn`t he throwing Bush under the bus with this one? It`s like, no, they put the blame on me because I look like the Pillsbury dough boy.

COULTER: Well — and by the way, yes, Bush`s brain was meant an insult to George Bush.


COULTER: So I didn`t think there was any doubt about it; that wasn`t a subtle one. But that — that South Carolina primary, I am kind of surprised that — I don`t know if he was asked about it, was he asked about it there because that has been disproved 17 times. The L.A. Times had a big investigation —

BEHAR: What the illegitimate black child?

COULTER: That — that the Bush campaign was making these Robo calls. If there have been such Robo call, they would have want — ended up on people`s answering machines and yet no one could produce them. And so the L.A. Times` Byron (INAUDIBLE), they do an investigation, turns out it was based on a third hand account. Some woman stood up at a McCain town hall and said her 10-year-old son had gotten a phone call saying this.

And so McCain instantly blamed Bush and Bush said, no, we didn`t do this. And surprisingly it`s unprecedented he released the text of the Robo calls. Surprisingly unprecedented because, like I say, it`s going to end up on like a hundred thousand answering machines across the state.

BEHAR: Hilary, do you hear what`s she`s saying — that it didn`t happen.

ROSEN: I do hear what she`s saying and I think that there were other investigations in South Carolina at the time that said something different. But you know, I don`t —

COULTER: And nobody can produce it.

ROSEN: — consider that his dirtiest trick. And I think Karl Rove`s dirtiest trick in the country was perpetuating this lie that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction and that we had to invade instantly otherwise Saddam Hussein was going to decimate with nuclear weapons the entire world.

And Karl Rove spent about a year and a half creating a campaign to make us all believe that they had a justification for invading Iraq.

BEHAR: But Rove has said —

ROSEN: And that`s the dirtiest trick of all.

BEHAR: That was a pretty dirty trick, but Rove has said that the American public isn`t easily misled. They were misled into the Iraq war — or we were.

COULTER: I think we need to distinguish between a dirty trick and —

BEHAR: Starting a war?

COULTER: — intelligence information being incorrect.

I mean, this is crazy to start saying that the — the French thought Saddam had weapons of mass destruction. Colin Powell thought they had weapons of mass destruction.

ROSEN: U.S. intelligence is absolutely not clear and what we know now is that Karl Rove at the — you know, went with Dick Cheney to the intelligence agencies and said, beef it up. And he sent Colin Powell to the U.N. to give information that they knew wasn`t true.

COULTER: No. This was a mistake. And it`s not a dirty trick. Are you claiming that Colin Powell was in on the dirty trick, come on? That`s a massive dirty trick.


BEHAR: Well, but Ann isn`t it —

ROSEN: No in fact Colin Powell, he says later that he knows that he was given wrong information.

BEHAR: But isn`t it true that the U.N. did not think there were massive weapons of mass destruction? I remember that guy, Ponce Blitzer (ph) or whatever his name was. Remember that guy?

COULTER: No, but they wanted to give the — Iraq had already violated 17 U.N. resolutions and the U.N. wanted to try one more resolution.

BEHAR: Ok, let`s move on to something else because that`s —

COULTER: You`re bored.

BEHAR: I am, I get bored easily.

Speaking of angry people on the right, let`s move on to these TEA partiers, ok. There are three hundred million Americans in this country. Well, Americans, ok, that`s redundant. How many TEA partiers are there? Like a thousand maybe, this is not really a substantial group of people to make any kind of change in this country, in my opinion.

COULTER: Well, it`s hard to say because it isn`t a specific organization and in fact I`ve gotten a little annoyed that some of the people who are showing up at or may be part of the TEA Party Movement.

BEHAR: Why, which ones? Are you annoyed at?

COULTER: When they didn`t — well, twice now recently, I mean, I think they did the right thing in Districts 23 in upstate New York, the Republican nominee.

BEHAR: He lost. Douglas Hoffman in District 23 lost.

COULTER: Fine, but the Democrat was better than the quote, “Republican” in that race. So they went for the right one in that case.

BEHAR: Wow. Can I quote that?

COULTER: Oh, yes.

BEHAR: Oh, my God. Hilary, I`m having a breakdown. I`m having a heart attack. Did you hear that? Go ahead.

COUTER: That`s how bad the Republican candidate was. It`s true. And recently in Texas, something like 18 percent — and who knows if they are TEA partiers or if they`re University of Texas idiots —


BEHAR: Debra Medina, she lost in Texas. I have this information.

COULTER: Right. But I`m not sure how much of the TEA — that was a TEA party vote. If so then they were idiots because she`s crazy. She thinks 9/11 was an inside job. Or maybe I shouldn`t say that on a liberal set as evidence of craziness.

And also in Illinois they didn`t back the vote —

BEHAR: Patrick Hughes, he lost.

COULTER: State legislature. Yes. You have to go for somebody who`s actually holding a position. Sometimes they`re good —

BEHAR: They`re losers.

COULTER: No, no, no, no. Sometimes they`re good — a force for good. But it is not like there is one organization.

BEHAR: Ok, ladies, sit tight. When we come back, Obama`s make or break health care moment.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Finally, after decades of effort we will have real health care reform even though as I have said it may not be — popular or viewed favorably by Americans or what the people want us to do.


BEHAR: Well, that was SNL spoofing Obama and the health care reform plan. He wants the House to pass by next week.

I`m back with Ann Coulter and Hilary Rosen. New deadline next week, are they going to get it? Hilary let me start with you. Are they going to get it next week?

ROSEN: I think they will.

COULTER: They are?

ROSEN: They will have the votes and the leadership is working awfully hard. And I think they`re going to have the votes and I think they`re going to finally pass this.

BEHAR: Ann, isn`t the GOP a little hypocritical when they accuse him of ramming legislation through? Didn`t they do this with the Bush tax cuts? Bush rammed those tax cuts through. He had, what they call, an up and down vote, I believe, right?

What`s the difference now? Let him ram it through.

COULTER: Fine. Let him ram it through. We`ll see what happens in November. I couldn`t disagree with Hilary more. I think this is absolutely dead, going no place. They are their spinning wheels; they`re trying to put on a big show for the liberal base.

But being a member of the Democratic Party is not agreeing to commit suicide. And this bill was very unpopular and you`re not going get Democrats to vote for it.

BEHAR: Don`t you girls think though that Americans have short memories? So in a couple of months they`ll ram it through next week and in a couple of months everybody will say, “Oh, he got us health care.” You know I think —

COULTER: That`s short.

ROSEN: I think you`re right, joy. What the American people have been subjected to for the last year and a half is sort of the unpleasant process because watching legislation get made is not very pretty. But what`s going to be the result once this thing gets signed into law by the president is people are going to know that all of a sudden their health insurance is portable if they move job to job or another state, they`ll know. And everybody knows somebody who`s been denied health care insurance because of a pre-existing condition.

BEHAR: Right. That`s one of the crucial things of this bill.

ROSEN: People will realize that these are changes that have been made because the president and Democrats stuck to it.

COULTER: Putting health care in charge — or turning it over to the Department of Motor Vehicles is not going to make it smoother, easier —

BEHAR: Who`s turning it over to the DMV?

COULTER: Ok, I`ll name 4 million companies.

BEHAR: DMV I mean, not the DMZ, that was Cambodia.

COULTER: DMZ is run better than healthcare is going to be if the government takes it over. I`ll name 4 billion private companies that are run well, FedEx, Apple, even Microsoft, cheap, cell phones, everything.


ROSEN: The government isn`t taking over health care. In fact I`d be happier if the government did takeover somewhat.

BEHAR: One at a time.

ROSEN: That was actually rejected. What is going to be the case is private health insurance will still rule. It`s just that there will be some more conditions on how they can operate in the market. Conditions that are pretty fair considering how much money they`re making.

BEHAR: Why does your side want to do this fear mongering that government is going to take over everything? You know that`s not true. Why keep putting that out?

COULTER: No, I know it`s true, unfortunately. So do a majority of Americans

BEHAR: You know these TEA partiers


COULTER: They are turning it into a public utility. I`ll take that. All the insurance companies — you will have to get insurance. Insurance companies will be guaranteed a certain amount of money, but health insurance will be a total disaster.

They`re just going to be another government utility with 8 million government commissions.


BEHAR: They`re always complaining about government, government, government while they are cashing Medicare checks, while they`re cashing their Medicaid checks —

COULTER: Oh, yes. I`m making off like a bandit.

BEHAR: Well, not you but a lot of people are who are complaining about big government.

Ann, Hilary, thank you.

COULTER: Thank you.

BEHAR: Up next, was California teen Amber Dubois killed by the same man suspected of killing Chelsea King? I`ll have an update.


BEHAR: The remains of 14-year-old Amber Dubois who had been missing for more than a year were found over the weekend. Today, authorities are looking for links between this case and the murder of 17- year-old Chelsea King. Joining me now with the latest is Jean Casarez, correspondent for In Session on from TruTV. And attorney Gloria Allred. Jean what`s the latest on this story?

JEAN CASAREZ, CORRESPONDENT, “IN SESSION” ON TRUTV: Well it is so ironic because Amber Dubois went missing last February and all of the sudden last week with Chelsea King disappearing from the same San Diego county area, all eyes turn toward once again the Amber Dubois case.

And ironically late Saturday skeletonized remains were found outside the county in a desolate area. They were confirmed through dental records to be those of Amber Dubois. But the big question Joy is, how ironic is it that in the midst of Chelsea King you find the remains of Amber in a desolate area? Law enforcement is not saying much but private investigator for the family of Amber Dubois say that someone just couldn`t take it any longer and stepped forward with information on where she could be found.

BEHAR: Yes. So there is something similar. Amber and Chelsea are similar in age and looks. Is it common for a murder to have a specific type that he wants to kill?

CASAREZ: I think it definitely is. You know both of them, was ten miles apart. They were both the same age, both the same coloring, complexion. Amber Dubois was walking from school. Chelsea was actually had come from school. She had a vehicle but was running in a park area. And remember, don`t forget, he`s already a registered sex offender with someone matching a similar description of them.

BEHAR: Right, Gloria why was the suspect, John Gardner free in the first place?

GLORIA ALLRED, VICTIM`S RIGHTS ATTORNEY: Well that`s a great question, Joy. And of course he was convicted. He was sentenced, but he actually got a break. He was only sentenced to six years. I think he got out in five years. Obviously that was not the maximum that he could have been sentenced to under the law. So the question is why did the prosecutor only ask for six years? If there was a deal and that deal was cut and he indicated that if he pled guilty he would only get six years. Well, that`s what happened. But a lot of people think that sex offenders should never be let out under any circumstances and that if he had to serve a long time in prison that maybe Chelsea King would be alive today, although, of course he has to be presumed innocent because he hasn`t had his trial yet.

BEHAR: Right, okay. Let`s talk about Jaycee Dugard. ABC News release home video released of Jaycee. This is the first we are seeing of her since she was found alive after being held captive for 18 years. Watch.


JAYCEE DUGARD: I want to thank you for all your support and I`m doing well. It`s been a long haul, but I`m getting there.


BEHAR: What`s the latest on her alleged kidnapper, this guy Philip Garrido? What`s going on with him.

CASAREZ: You know the latest is in court is the defense filed a motion saying that they wanted to contact Jaycee Dugard, they want to know where she is and interview her. The prosecution fired back saying, wait a minute, under California law you don`t have to contact the victim. And if the victim doesn`t want to be contacted then she doesn`t have to be. But in the midst of that we now see a video released by the family wanting to show that they are doing well.

BEHAR: I know but Gloria why would the family release home videos if they are asking the public to respect their privacy?

ALLRED: Well in a way it seems ironic. On the other hand it`s just a reminder by her mother Terry Proven that, please, do not as photographers, paparazzi, try to find out where they are. It`s interesting that the defendant wants to know. He — I`m sure he is assuming that she may be a potential witness against him if, as and when there is a trial in this case.

But obviously Jaycee needs to be able to heal she needs to go through her therapy as do her two young daughters who happen to be Garrido`s children by her — from when he raped her.


ALLRED: And so I`m sure they want to keep themselves in seclusion until they can heal.

BEHAR: How much truth is there to this idea that Garrido wants to have some kind of visitation rights for his biological children? That seems really strange to me.

CASAREZ: No, it does definitely. But what the prosecution is saying is that Garrido has tried to manipulate Jaycee and her two children for years and if this is just another attempt to do that.

BEHAR: Right. And I read somewhere that Garrido and the woman involved — I don`t know her name — that they would like to be able to communicate with each other in prison. Why should they be allowed to communicate to each other? Gloria? Gloria?

ALLRED: Well, I mean if we are talking about Nancy Garrido.


ALLRED: As a wife of Phillip Garrido and as husband and wife they want to be able to communicate, of course. They are both being charged for the criminal acts they are charged with against Jaycee, but it may be that Phillip is very afraid that Nancy Garrido is going to take a deal where she ends up testifying against her husband.



CASAREZ: And there is no right of privacy, so the camera will be rolling if they meet in jail.

BEHAR: Wow, unbelievable. Okay Jean, thank you very much.

CASAREZ: Thank you.

BEHAR: Now I have to turn to a different kind of horror story. Many people dismissed last week`s fatal killer whale attack as an isolated incident. But over the weekend a woman and her boyfriend were mauled by a bear while visiting a Wisconsin zoo.


OFFICER LARRY PERRONNE, MANITOWOC POLICE DEPT.: We tried opening the jaws and she eventually did get released from the bears. She`s missing some fingers and he also got bit.


BEHAR: These are just two examples of many my producers found. So are these attacks as rare as we`d like to think? Joining me now are some of the people featured in animal planet`s fatal attraction series which premiers March 14. La Donna and Saint James, former chimp owners who survived an attack. The attorney Gloria Allred and David Salmoni, Animal Planet`s large predators expert. Welcome to the show.

Dave, do these attacks surprise you?

DAVE SALMONI, ANIMAL PLANET`S PREDATOR EXPERT: They don`t. They are really, really common. Obviously it depends when they hit the news. Sometimes the rest of us go, wow, I didn`t know that happens as often. It`s very regular for someone in my business to hear of this kind of thing.

BEHAR: The whale? The chimp? The bear?

SALMONI: They`re all wild animals and you know there are people out there that interact with these animals and those wild instincts eventually kick in. And bad things happen.

BEHAR: But maybe, do you think it`s the fact that they confine the animals that make these poor things go berserk?

SALMONI: I think in a lot of cases confinement, you know they have all that extra energy. You know, when you talk about the predators, their body is telling them to hunt and the only thing around is a person. So they hunt the person. When you talk about maybe a chimpanzee, they want to form a troop, they want to dominate – they want to you know –

BEHAR: Uh huh.

SALMONI: And if you`re the only thing around then you`re going to be the one dominated. And —

BEHAR: Well that`s interesting, La donna, let me talk to you, your story is different.


BEHAR: What do you think when you hear of these animal attacks?

DAVIS: I believe that quite often animals are brought up with the ability to think but in the wrong way. If you`re going to have an exotic animal it`s a 24-hour-a-day, seven-day-a-week commitment and a lot of people can`t do it. They put them in a facility, go to work, come home and think they will have a normal routine. And that is not the case.

With Moe, he was in our life when he was born. And he learned that he could trust us. We learned to trust him. It`s really unbelievable to look into a pair of dark brown eyes and understand that there is something back there so phenomenal and we`re so grateful to have had the opportunity to be around him. He teaches you as much as you teach him. And the trust bond grows.

BEHAR: Well this is a — yes. This is a chimp that, I think that you guys adopted as a pet. Am I correct?

DAVIS: No. Actually, my husband was there when Moe was born.


DAVIS: And there were not many things at that time to place him somewhere. So we just decided to raise him ourselves.

BEHAR: And then what happened?

DAVIS: We had him in our home for about 32 years when some sets of circumstances changed and he had to go to another facility.

BEHAR: What were the circumstances?

DAVIS: Boy, that would be a long — he — we had a lady come to visit that we won that in a court of law. She had a finger supposedly bitten, but in reality when we got into court there was nothing wrong with it. So we won the court case. So that didn`t change the —

BEHAR: So in other words they accused Moe of attacking this woman who came to visit you and they would – then they took Moe away from you? Is that what happened?


BEHAR: Okay.

DAVIS: She sued us and we went to court. She had — she wore a Band-Aid for a long time. A year and a half actually, until we got into court.

BEHAR: So that`s a different — that`s a little bit different you know. It sounds as though they had the pet and the pet allegedly attacked somebody else.


BEHAR: But that`s not an animal that should be in the wild — or should it? Can you have a pet like that?

SALMONI: I mean –

BEHAR: Can you have a pet like that?

SALMONI: They don`t make good pets – I mean. An animal born in captivity, often times, we don`t know any methods that are going to teach chimps how to survive in the wild, no. So there are professionals out there and they are places where these animals can be raised as healthily as they possibly can.

But when you talk about bringing them into your home, having them as a pet they are just far too dangerous. And it`s not the type of thing that you can adopt them and say, well, I will figure it out as I go. If you want to be a chimp caretaker –


SALMONI: And go to a zoo to become that chimp caretaker where they can, you know, apprentice you properly, and teach you all the proper things and you know for sure you are going to be able to financially afford to feed that animal and house it.


SALMONI: And pay for the veterinary bills, you can do that.

BEHAR: Okay we are going to talk a little bit more about that when we come back. Stay where you are we`ll be right back after this break.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The chimp killed my friend!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What`s the problem with your friend?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What`s the problem with your friend?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Please, hurry up. He`s killing my girlfriend.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Who`s killing your friend?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My chimp. My chimpanzee. Hurry up, please!


BEHAR: Okay that was a cry for help that was heard around the world when a pet chimp named Travis savagely attacked the owner`s friend. I`m talking about animal attacks with my panel. Okay Dave when a domesticated chimp like Travis attacks, who really is to blame for that —

SALMONI: I mean unfortunately, I won`t speak legally, but ethically and morally, the owner is always to blame. My sympathy goes out to anyone involved in this type of thing because it really is heart- breaking. And I understand the will to have these animals in your home and in your life.


SALMONI: But the fact of the matter is you`re 100 percent responsible for that animal and what it does.

BEHAR: Okay. St. James, you were attacked by two chimps. Can you tell us what happened?

ST. JAMES DAVIS, SURVIVED CHIMP ATTACK: We were there visiting Moe on his 39th birthday. Donna was cutting his cake and I was giving him chocolate milk and — some of the chimps got out. We didn`t know about it until he started attacking my wife`s face and pulling her hair. And by the time I got there he`d bit off her thumb. And then I pushed her underneath the picnic table. She was trying to get her out of the way and one of the chimps was trying to get her from the head side. The other one was trying to get her feet. She kept stomping her feet and screaming bloody murder. Finally, some guy come out of the house to see what the screaming was about. And by then, the chimp started attacking me.

BEHAR: And you were attacked pretty badly. I mean, I can see some of the injuries from here. You know, Dave, what do you make of all that?

SALMONI: I think in some cases, especially with domesticated chimps you have an animal that gets to the point in life where their body produces more testosterone and the will to dominate, the will to have more females in your troop and that type of stuff, these are chemicals in the animal`s body. And it acts out in that way. Aggression in a chimpanzee is very normal. All of the stuff that happened — although horrifying — is really normal.

ALLRED: I just want to interject that they were visiting Moe, the chimp, the one they raised for 32 years. He has never attacked La Donna or St. James. What happen —

BEHAR: You`re talking about Moe.

ALLRED: What happened with St. James being attacked and La Donna being attacked is that the person who was running the habitat apparently left open the habitat in which these other chimpanzees were nearby and they got out. They came romping across and they attacked La Donna. St. James was a real hero. He sacrificed himself in order to save his wife and then the chimps that attacked him, while Moe watched in horror, by the way, were — they almost killed him. And also La Donna is a real saint because she is taking care of St. James who rescued her and sacrificed himself. And he`s had dozens and dozens of surgeries, but the point is Moe, their chimp — and they are like human parents to him — never attacked them.

BEHAR: Okay the owner of Travis the chimp was asked if chimps should be pets. Listen.


SANDRA HEROLD, OWNER OF TRAVIS THE CHIMP: Would I have done it again? Yes. It was horrific what happened and I had to do what I had to do. But I still– I`ll miss him for the rest of my life.


BEHAR: Dave, are the owners of wild animals in denial about the risks of these animals?

SALMONI: I think a lot of times. You see people and the people that take in chimps seem to have a certain will. You know I notice them getting dressed up. We know definitely with Travis, in the house, in the diapers, eating ice cream. It`s really common with chimp owners they almost want them as a baby.

BEHAR: Oh I can understand that.

SALMONI: The people who want the tigers and the lions they want to have the big tough animals. The snake you know –


SALMONI: They all seem to have certain characteristics. And I think most of them go, well yes I know they are like that to other people but that will never happen to me.

BEHAR: Well you know I had a chimp in my arms one time, a little baby chimp. And you can see – I have a picture of me with him. We look like we are so in love with each other, me and this little chimp.

SALMONI: Uh huh.

BEHAR: You know but that chimp grows up to be a bigger chimp and as you say, it develops this testosterone and becomes aggressive.

SALMONI: And I think you hit on a good point there is you could think that it would have that love for you, especially from the way it acts.


SALMONI: A chimp can hug you and kiss you.

BEHAR: Oh they are adorable.

SALMONI: But you can`t — just because you love them that much doesn`t mean they love you back that much.

BEHAR: That`s right, okay. Okay, don`t go anywhere. We will be back in a minute.



UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do they really get to know you, Dawn?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They do, they definitely do, see she is watching us very closely. And we interact with them all day long.


BEHAR: Dave, is this an example of a woman who doesn`t quite get that different species don`t act like humans?

SALMONI: I think in some cases. I didn`t know this individual particularly, but I think it is really common it is one of the most common things where someone puts out so much love and watches the other species interact. The only way we can describe the interactions is with our own human emotion.

BEHAR: Uh huh.

SALMONI: And I think if you look at it from an external point of view, you realize they can`t have those emotions.

BEHAR: Uh huh.

SALMONI: And even if they did, you look at a chimpanzee, they will kill their father or their brother if they act wrong. You know in the wild, that is totally natural for them. A tiger or a lion or a whale they will go after members of their own family in certain circumstances.

BEHAR: Well I saw that Diane, maybe it was “gorillas In The Mist” or one of those Diane Fossey things, some are sweet and some are not in the gorilla family.

SALMONI: So true.

BEHAR: Just like people.

SALMONI: And it`s also just like people. Where one day you can be sweet and the next day, you don`t have to be.

BEHAR: Yes but with an animal it is unpredictable.


BEHAR: Let me ask the couple, La Donna, you seem to have had the need to have a child almost when you took on Moe, am I right? Almost like having a child?

L. DAVIS: That`s right. However, I — I don`t fully agree with your expert. The reason being is animals are all their own nature, just like humans and we have a very unusual society today. A lot of fighting and bickering and people doing very bad things to one another. And it`s no different than in the animal world. All animals have their own personality, their own traits. And in my opinion it is depending on how that animal is raised and the goodness and kindness that you give to that animal is the outcome. It is the same thing as a human. Our traits are very, very similar.

BEHAR: Well you see from some of the examples in this interview just today, you know, your husband was mercilessly attacked and Moe, even though he didn`t really hurt the woman maybe, it is dangerous.

SALMONI: But it is really common to hear someone think they can give something — if you give it so many hugs and so many kisses that it will never do anything bad to you.



SALMONI: You can`t hug and kiss a dangerous animal to love you.

BEHAR: She disagrees. Go ahead.

L. DAVIS: I disagree.

J. DAVIS: After 35 years.

DAVIS: I would say that anything can be raised in a better situation than it came from. Animals have their traits because that`s what they learn when they are young from their mothers and fathers. If that trait is not there and that circumstance is not there, you can somewhat bring that to a different outcome. And chimps are very, very intelligent. They will mimic you and learn about — from you the same way that a child does.

BEHAR: Okay. Before we —

L. DAVIS: There`s also the gorilla.

BEHAR: I just need a very short answer from you, St. James. Given the horrific injuries that you have sustained, do you have any regrets about owning a chimp or being around chimps?

J. DAVIS: Being around them? I don`t think that ever go to a zoo or another place to see other chimps. I miss ours very bad. I think somebody else probably might have Moe. We find out who and I hope he gets returned to us.

BEHAR: I guess what you`re feeling is Moe was somebody, you would do it again with Moe, but these other chimps that were sort of out of control? No. All right thank you, guys. Be sure to catch animal planet`s three-part miniseries, “Fatal Attraction” starting Sunday at 10:00 p.m. good night, everybody.


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